Disappointing

Discussion on Stirling or "hot air" engines (all types)
Aviator168
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:29 pm
Location: Brokeville, NY. USA

Re: Disappointing

Postby Aviator168 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:15 am

It was a model P-40 Rider type engine with compressed hydrogen at 2200psi with a piston displacement of 492cc. The engine produced 72Hp at 4000 rpm.

I pretty much want to read about this engine.

Ian S C
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:15 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Disappointing

Postby Ian S C » Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:51 am

The TMG was when designed at the Atomic Energy Research Establishment, Harwell England was no toy, it was use on remote shipping beacons among other things, and versions up to 120W were built by Homach Systems Ltd. of Swindon.
Ian S C

Trevor
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:07 am

Re: Disappointing

Postby Trevor » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:47 am

Aviator- I think Camden still has both books for sale.
You can contact them on www.camdenmin.co.uk

Trev

Aviator168
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:29 pm
Location: Brokeville, NY. USA

Re: Disappointing

Postby Aviator168 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:01 am

Trevor, thinking about that P-40 single cylinder engine that produced 72hp you mentioned. Either it had a very inefficient burner or it is impossible. Considering that if the engine itself achieved 50% carnot efficiency, the outside area has to receive 100K joules per second and that will take a very large area.

Trevor
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:07 am

Re: Disappointing

Postby Trevor » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:18 am

You may be right Aviator, but they certainly achieved it.
I am posting 4 pages of extract from An introduction to STIRLING ENGINES by James R. Senft. It would be worthwhile for you to try and get hold a copy as the book is worth its weight in gold so to speak.posting.php?mode=reply&f=1&t=2196#
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Aviator168
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:29 pm
Location: Brokeville, NY. USA

Re: Disappointing

Postby Aviator168 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:06 am

OK. Thank. I know about that stirling engine on the AMC. It had a pressurized burner and huge amount of dead space. The centrifuge pump that pressurize the burner is as big as the burner itself if not bigger, and the huge amount of dead space requires very high mean pressure in the working fluid.

Trevor
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:07 am

Re: Disappointing

Postby Trevor » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:00 am

Yes it is, but well compensated by pressure and ratio of compression. They are making headway with cars - I just wish I could find that article for you in the magazine.02
Trev

cbstirling2
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:35 pm

Re: Disappointing

Postby cbstirling2 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:38 am

Trev, shouldn't you say *was*?

I think there is no on going development in terms of Automotive propulsion in regards to Stirling engines.

Let's face it most and development now in automotive is with electric cars.

I think Sterling's potential is with cogeneration. I live in a Northern climate, and energy is wasted with heating.
CBStirling2

Aviator168
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:29 pm
Location: Brokeville, NY. USA

Re: Disappointing

Postby Aviator168 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:33 pm

The Tesla uses < 20kw if it is driven at 60mph. An 30kw to 40kw stirling-electric hybrid can definitely compete with gas engine cars, and probably even the Tesla. No need to build a Mod II size engine.

Ian S C
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:15 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Disappointing

Postby Ian S C » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:58 am

Even on "Myth busters" they found that an average American 4 door salon car only needs 20hp once it reaches cruising speed, so the Tesla figures are not too different.
Ian S C

Trevor
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:07 am

Re: Disappointing

Postby Trevor » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:04 am

CB - I think you may be wrong there. On one of the NASA sites you will see that they are using Stirling engines in outer space due to the massive temperature difference and I do believe there will be a Stirling engine for the future, though, probably not in my life time.
The electric motor (Tesla) and Stirling will always be in my dreams.
Trev

Ian S C
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:15 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Disappointing

Postby Ian S C » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:18 am

NASA developed a number of Stirling Engines for use in space, some of the more interesting ones are the "Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators" heated with plutonium( I think they need refueling about each 120 years.
They are used in satellites as cyocoolers to maintain even temperature in electronic equipement.
Ian S C

cbstirling2
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:35 pm

Re: Disappointing

Postby cbstirling2 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:40 am

Trev, "not in our lifetime" proves my point.
The range problem with electric is already solved (Chevy Volt, Tesla) for all reasonable use cases.
The Chevy Volt has solved it for all use cases.

I watched a recent PBS Nova episode about batteries and there is impressive advancement.

In a few years, there will be fully electric cars with extreme range.
CBStirling2

Ian S C
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:15 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Disappointing

Postby Ian S C » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:00 am

As long as they don't have problems as has been had with exploding cell phones, lap tops etc.
Ian S C

cbstirling2
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:35 pm

Re: Disappointing

Postby cbstirling2 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:03 am

Ian S C wrote:As long as they don't have problems as has been had with exploding cell phones, lap tops etc.
Ian S C

On the Nova program they dedicated a lot of time to that. A professor has that solved and he demonstrated it. Just needs development money to mass produce. It also produces more power as it can be a lithium metal battery rather than lithium ion.
CBStirling2


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